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Post by antonioe1778 on Dec 6, 2009 7:09:05 GMT -8
While reading the Liberal - Conservative post, I found that there are a number of people posting here that call themselves "Christians". I, in my basic beliefs, would like to call myself a Christian as well: a possibly fundamentalist, right-wing, conservative, Calvinist, Bible-believing Christian. I believe that the Bible is the holy, inspired, inerrant (and free of contradictions) word of God and is the final 'rule of life', so to speak. I believe that God is real and personal. I'm your basic Protestant Christian.
Why do you consider yourself a Christian and what beliefs define your conviction? What, to you, is a Christian and what is not? I think I will find it fascinating to read everybody's differing viewpoints on the matter...
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Post by christopher on Dec 7, 2009 7:35:18 GMT -8
Good question. I consider myself a Christian, though there are many other Christians who say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian denomination. I think they say that because they've heard things about us that are untrue. I think a Christian is someone who believes in the teachings and atonement of Jesus Christ and in the teachings of his apostles after him. A Christian strives to live the kind of life Jesus told us live. They accept Him as the Son of God who suffered and died so that we could repent of our sins and be resurrected. Everything else about Christianity has to be merely an appendage of the life, suffering, and death of Jesus Christ. That's what I believe, and I think that makes me a Christian.
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Post by Jangles on Dec 7, 2009 20:12:25 GMT -8
Cuz me and Jesus are always kickin' it at my place!
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Post by Jon Broxton on Dec 7, 2009 20:23:09 GMT -8
Is he your buddy from Puerto Rico?
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Post by Jangles on Dec 8, 2009 18:44:18 GMT -8
Yeah man.
Seriously though - for me, it's one of those things where it's less about labeling yourself as a Christian and saying "I believe this, I believe that, and Jesus Christ is awesome" and more about being a Christian through your choices and actions.
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Post by christopher on Dec 9, 2009 8:02:12 GMT -8
True. Deeds should speak louder than words.
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Post by antonioe1778 on Dec 9, 2009 13:30:57 GMT -8
True but (mostly) the reason for those deeds are certain beliefs, mostly religious, right?
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Post by Jens Dietrich on Dec 9, 2009 13:39:43 GMT -8
True but (mostly) the reason for those deeds are certain beliefs, mostly religious, right? As a die-hard atheist, I would have to say absolutely not. Maybe religion is the motivation for some of your behavior, but there are millions of people for whom it plays no part whatsoever. You don't have to believe in any sort of religion to be a good person, either.
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Post by Jangles on Dec 9, 2009 16:01:52 GMT -8
True but (mostly) the reason for those deeds are certain beliefs, mostly religious, right? You don't have to believe in any sort of religion to be a good person, either. This.
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Post by Hook on Dec 9, 2009 19:19:35 GMT -8
True but (mostly) the reason for those deeds are certain beliefs, mostly religious, right? These kinds of comments always scare me. What if an alien spaceship landed on Earth, an alien comes out and, speaking perfect English, snaps his fingers to bring people back from the dead. Then he proclaims to be the one true lord and his will is to enslave some of us, while others (true believers) get to serve him and harass us. You guys go... what, switch? Just like that? "Oh, I used to believe in Jesus and 'love thy neighbor', but this guy says otherwise and is way more powerful so I believe he's right"? *shudders*
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Post by Jangles on Dec 9, 2009 19:41:25 GMT -8
I would always believe in the guy who can snap his fingers and instantly make zombies!
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Post by Kevin Smith on Dec 10, 2009 18:54:05 GMT -8
I'm Roman Catholic, the corrupt kind of Christian!
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Post by antonioe1778 on Dec 10, 2009 19:13:58 GMT -8
True but (mostly) the reason for those deeds are certain beliefs, mostly religious, right? These kinds of comments always scare me. What if an alien spaceship landed on Earth, an alien comes out and, speaking perfect English, snaps his fingers to bring people back from the dead. Then he proclaims to be the one true lord and his will is to enslave some of us, while others (true believers) get to serve him and harass us. You guys go... what, switch? Just like that? "Oh, I used to believe in Jesus and 'love thy neighbor', but this guy says otherwise and is way more powerful so I believe he's right"? *shudders* Well, I believe God to be super-natural (i.e. not natural distinctly, but beyond that which we consider natural). As such, He, as creator and sustain-er of the universe can choose to, does, and has 'supernaturally' intervened in certain events or caused things to happen, etc... This is a miracle. Something supernatural occuring (which I believe is an action of God). An alien landing and snapping his fingers and raising the dead is impossible, since something which is dead cannot be given life by any natural means. I'm guessing that even many scientists would concede this point. That may be why many reject the Resurrection of Christ, because what evolutionists and naturalists believe doesn't coincide with the physics of the event. They believe that all that exists is only natural and by presupposition they rule out anything super-natural. Since resurrection of dead material cannot happen naturally, they might claim that the story of the resurrection is a lie (or any of the other claims, i.e. Jesus was really just asleep, etc...) since in order for that to happen, something beyond the natural would have to exist in order to perpetuate said resurrection. This is why I think your example is really not an example at all since such an event, if the aliens are natural beings, is impossible. Does that make any sense at all?
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Post by Hook on Dec 10, 2009 21:19:07 GMT -8
That may be why many reject the Resurrection of Christ, because what evolutionists and naturalists believe doesn't coincide with the physics of the event. They believe that all that exists is only natural and by presupposition they rule out anything super-natural. Since resurrection of dead material cannot happen naturally, they might claim that the story of the resurrection is a lie (or any of the other claims, i.e. Jesus was really just asleep, etc...) since in order for that to happen, something beyond the natural would have to exist in order to perpetuate said resurrection. This is why I think your example is really not an example at all since such an event, if the aliens are natural beings, is impossible. Does that make any sense at all? Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear, but you haven't addressed the issue here: why are you a Christian? You said you're a Christian because you believe in Christian teachings and the Bible. But that's the thing; why do you believe these things? Why not believe in Hinduism? Or not believe in Christ as the son of God and believe as Jews do? I'm not looking for reasons why you need to believe in the content of man-written books pertaining to creation of all things known (I think I used my words carefully there as to not exclude they may actually have been inspired by supernatural phenomena), but I do want to know why you believe in what your denomination believes in. Why are you a Christian in the first place? Did you, at some point, read all you needed to know on major religions and picked one? And that's where my alien comes in. According to your beliefs, only God through Jesus has had the power to bring men back from the dead. If my alien does it too, as well as many other things attributable to God and God alone, then your belief is immediately disproven. A scientist who believes resurrection is not possible by a simple snap of your fingers would have to revise all the data available and make up a new model (even if that model has to acknowledge one of the properties of this supernatural occurrence is the inability to comprehend it by natural means). A Christian, on the other hand, can't revise the whole "Jesus is the one and only son of God who can do this and that and no one else can other than with God's assistance". If he asks the alien if he was sent by God and what role Jesus has on his alien powers, and the alien goes "I have no idea who those people are". Then, what? You call it quits on Christianity? Again, why, from the very beginning, believe this story and not other stories? What makes Athena so unremarkable to you?
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Post by Craig Richard Lysy on Dec 11, 2009 23:06:54 GMT -8
The question posed is Why am I a Christian? This is not a simple answer. I must provide context.
After many years of struggle I have reconciled reason and my Christian faith. I reject dogmatic and institutional religious practices mediated by clerics, preferring instead the more personal Gnostic method which involves the seeking of Gnosis (from the greek word for knowledge). The quest for Gnosis inolves the personal and private search for the Divine which is obtained through meditating and self reflection; achieving an understanding at which one can only arrive via inner experience. In my study of the Buddha this is called Raja Yoga or the Path Of Meditation.
As a Christian I am the sum of my explorations and have joined them with my intellectual construct of God. I reason that; 1. God is the embodiment of all that is Good; God is Truth, Love, Compassion, Mercy and Justice. 2. I believe God is the source of life and immortality, the origin of all existence, creator, nurturer, bringer of harmony and order to the universe. 3. I believe that God transcends time and space. 4. I believe that God is the totality of all possibilities. 5. I believe that God is the cosmic center, the Point Quiescent where all opposites disappear. 6. I believe God is the point of union, the intersection of the microcosm and the macrocosm. 7. I believe that God is the Prime archetype from which all form life is derived. Since form life is both masculine and feminine, God must by reason in essence be both masculine and feminine. 8. I believe that the human soul is a spark of the Divine, a part of God's essence that both animates us as beings and connects us to God.
As to secular ethics; 1. I reject Constantine, wrongly called the great and Machiavelli, advocates of, and practitioners of, the precept that evil methods can be employed in service of God or self to achieve a good end. I believe what God's prophet Mahatma Gandhi advocated, that the Means justify the Ends; he stated "I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." 2. I reject that axiom that Might makes Right, the law of the jungle from whence we came. I believe Right makes Might. 3. I believe, try and struggle to embody what I construe are the ten prime virtues; Courage, Love, Compassion, Forgiveness, Non-violence, Veracity, Honor, Fidelity, Generosity and Humility. 4. I believe in the Bahai faith's precepts;
A. That there is but one religion which is progressively revealed by God, through prophets/messengers, to mankind as humanity matures and its capacity to understand also grows. The outward differences in the religions are due to the exigencies of the time and place the religion was revealed. As such I believe all peoples who show fidelity to the prophets and their religious tenets can achieve the rewards their teachings promise.
B. That since all humans have been created in the image of God, God does not make any distinction between people regardless of race or color. Because all humans have been created equal, they all require equal opportunities and treatment (an underpinning of my liberalism), as such people's vision should be world-embracing and people should love the whole world rather than just their nation.
Now, accepting what I have said above, why I am a Christian? The beauty, simplicity and purity of the Word resonates within me both emotionally and intellectually;
Love 1. You shall love the Lord your god with your whole heart, with your whole soul,and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. The second is like it: you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments the whole law is based, and the prophets as well . If anyone says, 'I love God,' yet hates his brother, he is a liar. One who has no love for his brother whom he sees cannot love God whom he does not see. 2. Love your enemies; pray for those who persecute you; do good to those who hate you. If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good. Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult. Return a blessing instead.
Compassion I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you welcomed me; I was naked and you clothed me; I was ill and you comforted me; I was in prison and you came to visit me." I assure you, as often you did any of these things for the least of my brothers, you did it for me
Pacifism Since I believe the Divine spark or essence of God resides in all humans, it serves to reinforce the Christian ethic of non-violence I also espouse. To kill another is by my reasoning an act of attacking God whose essence resides within the victim. When Jesus stayed Peter's sword, he stayed the sword hand of all men of violence past, present and future. As such, the Christian basis of my belief in non-violence has perfect clarity; 1. You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. 2. Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. 3. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 4. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Forgiveness 1. For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 2. Be merciful, just as your father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Being a Christian means that I accept Jesus as my personal God. I accept that I cannot regain unity with God in Heaven by merit or good deeds alone, but only by God's grace. I accept that I must embody what I discern are the 6 pillars of Christianity; Love, Compassion, Pacifism, Forgiveness, Generosity and Non-Judgment.
In summation, these statements should be contrued as personal beliefs. They have everything to do with me, and nothing to do with any of you. I do not assert that they constitute Truth, only the Truth I at this current state of spiritual evolution percieve and believe. Lastly I freely admit that I am flawed and that I do not always live up to these precepts. Life is a struggle that must be waged and for which we must persevere.
I hope I have contributed constructively to the spirit of the debate. Perhaps you may better understand my perspective in other more political discussions.
All the best.
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