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Post by Jens Dietrich on Dec 12, 2009 8:40:36 GMT -8
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is an "Ianian"?
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Post by Jangles on Dec 12, 2009 11:21:31 GMT -8
Google doesn't know what an ianian is either. "I ain't nothing"-ian is what I'm guessing it means...Or maybe some Australian slang.
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Post by Hook on Dec 12, 2009 15:38:58 GMT -8
It's Australian for beer. Whatever Australian slang it turns out to be, it was probably invented by a Simpsons writer. Or maybe he mistyped Indian, but that would refer to a nationality, and it's kind of a dick move to say that while in Australia, really. "I was born an Indian and I'll die an Indian [but I will gladly pay outrageous taxes and wait 16 months for my favorite entertainment to arrive, after everyone on the net has outgrown its enjoyment]". Ok, now I just made a dick move to Australians for no reason. Look, Australia is great (save for its parliament). I even liked the movie "Australia". Hell, my favorite porn site is Australian! PC time over. Or maybe he's an aboriginal. His people were there thousands of years before whitey came to their coasts. mrman, you pose such an interesting conundrum.
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Post by Hook on Dec 12, 2009 21:52:22 GMT -8
? Um, no. Just a fun, incomprehensible post. But what I said is true: AbbyWinters rocks.
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Post by antonioe1778 on Dec 13, 2009 11:31:44 GMT -8
That may be why many reject the Resurrection of Christ, because what evolutionists and naturalists believe doesn't coincide with the physics of the event. They believe that all that exists is only natural and by presupposition they rule out anything super-natural. Since resurrection of dead material cannot happen naturally, they might claim that the story of the resurrection is a lie (or any of the other claims, i.e. Jesus was really just asleep, etc...) since in order for that to happen, something beyond the natural would have to exist in order to perpetuate said resurrection. This is why I think your example is really not an example at all since such an event, if the aliens are natural beings, is impossible. Does that make any sense at all? Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear, but you haven't addressed the issue here: why are you a Christian? You said you're a Christian because you believe in Christian teachings and the Bible. But that's the thing; why do you believe these things? Why not believe in Hinduism? Or not believe in Christ as the son of God and believe as Jews do? I'm not looking for reasons why you need to believe in the content of man-written books pertaining to creation of all things known (I think I used my words carefully there as to not exclude they may actually have been inspired by supernatural phenomena), but I do want to know why you believe in what your denomination believes in. Why are you a Christian in the first place? Did you, at some point, read all you needed to know on major religions and picked one? And that's where my alien comes in. According to your beliefs, only God through Jesus has had the power to bring men back from the dead. If my alien does it too, as well as many other things attributable to God and God alone, then your belief is immediately disproven. A scientist who believes resurrection is not possible by a simple snap of your fingers would have to revise all the data available and make up a new model (even if that model has to acknowledge one of the properties of this supernatural occurrence is the inability to comprehend it by natural means). A Christian, on the other hand, can't revise the whole "Jesus is the one and only son of God who can do this and that and no one else can other than with God's assistance". If he asks the alien if he was sent by God and what role Jesus has on his alien powers, and the alien goes "I have no idea who those people are". Then, what? You call it quits on Christianity? Again, why, from the very beginning, believe this story and not other stories? What makes Athena so unremarkable to you? Simply put, Christianity seems to be the most unique of religions. Sure, there are all sorts of distortions and cults claiming to be Christian but in reality are nothing of the sort (you have to be careful when some people call themselves Christians). The word 'Christian' literally means, I believe, "follower of Christ." Therefore people who come and say 'I'm a Christian' and have a complete doctrinal statement that has everything to do with God and nothing to do with His Son Jesus Christ are NOT Christians. They betray the etymology and meaning of the word. NOR can they be said to follow the Bible. You can't be a Christian and yet pick and choose which parts of Christ's teachings and the Bible you want to agree with. I am definitely not a perfect Christian, indeed nobody is. I believe that Christianity, and in particular Reformed Christianity, has consistency and uniqueness on its side. Sure, many religions claim God (except for atheism, which is still a religion) exists and what not, but only Christianity posits a loving God who offers a man salvation apart from ANY works that that person has done, good or bad. The Apostle Paul proves this point. He was a persecutor and murderer of Christians back in his day until God reached down and changed him. Paul eventually became a giant of the Christian faith. In every other theistic religion that I know of, some sort of good works are required for salvation. Not so with true Christianity. Of course, I do believe that while good works are not necessary for salvation, they will to some extent follow salvation. It is impossible for a Christian to realize what they have been given, the true gift, and not produce some sort of good work(s).
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Post by Carlton the Barbarian on Dec 13, 2009 19:50:29 GMT -8
In every other theistic religion that I know of, some sort of good works are required for salvation. Not so with true Christianity. Unique indeed. I can abuse and rape everything, and the second before I go, in the blink of an eye, in the beat of a heart, I can pull a quick Jimmy Swaggart-like episode . "I believe." -CG
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Post by Jon Broxton on Dec 13, 2009 20:03:00 GMT -8
only Christianity posits a loving God who offers a man salvation apart from ANY works that that person has done, good or bad. The Apostle Paul proves this point. He was a persecutor and murderer of Christians back in his day until God reached down and changed him. Paul eventually became a giant of the Christian faith. In every other theistic religion that I know of, some sort of good works are required for salvation. Not so with true Christianity. And this is something to be proud of? "It's OK honey, you don't have to be a good person who treats people well, you don't have to be honest, you can be a 'persecutor' and a 'murderer', but as long as you repent and believe in God, you'll be fine. Meanwhile, that guy over there, who has been a good person all his life, worked hard, been a good parent and member of his family... wel, he's going to hell, because he's an atheist" That's a great lesson to teach your kids.
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Post by Jens Dietrich on Dec 14, 2009 7:07:43 GMT -8
Antinomianism at work, Jon. It is the way Christians justify their un-Christian behavior.
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Post by antonioe1778 on Dec 14, 2009 16:28:50 GMT -8
only Christianity posits a loving God who offers a man salvation apart from ANY works that that person has done, good or bad. The Apostle Paul proves this point. He was a persecutor and murderer of Christians back in his day until God reached down and changed him. Paul eventually became a giant of the Christian faith. In every other theistic religion that I know of, some sort of good works are required for salvation. Not so with true Christianity. And this is something to be proud of? "It's OK honey, you don't have to be a good person who treats people well, you don't have to be honest, you can be a 'persecutor' and a 'murderer', but as long as you repent and believe in God, you'll be fine. Meanwhile, that guy over there, who has been a good person all his life, worked hard, been a good parent and member of his family... wel, he's going to hell, because he's an atheist" That's a great lesson to teach your kids. You obviously did not read the entirety of my post, for in that same post I do say that while works are not the basis for our salvation, works will indeed follow. I do not believe a true Christian can be a murderer, persecutor, rapist, etc... Do you understand? A guy cannot simply say "I believe" and then have nothing to show for it. Again, the good works are not the basis for our salvation, but the good works will indeed follow. We are not saved on the basis of our past deeds. Therefore, a rapist and a murderer can accept Jesus Christ and be genuinely saved, and yet will not continue doing the evil that he has done. I urge you to read entire posts before ripping stuff out of context next time (as people seem so content to do with the Bible as well)
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ddueck
Ghostwriter
Omnia dicta fortiori, si dicta Latina!
Posts: 245
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Post by ddueck on Dec 14, 2009 18:09:25 GMT -8
Hear hear, sir. Well put. I stand by you in this.
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Post by Jangles on Dec 14, 2009 18:57:42 GMT -8
A lot of people are misunderstanding here. To be forgiven (as a Catholic or a Christian), you have to truly be repentant. It's not as simple as saying "I believe in God and I want to be forgiven just so I don't go to hell." God isn't stupid and he will be able to truly tell whether or not you truly wish forgiveness and accept salvation.
You don't just kill someone and think in the back of your mind "Okay, I accept Christ - I should be good now". That's not what Christians believe.
As to what Jon Broxton said - God isn't a complete idiot. He knows if you are just showboating and not being Christian in your actions.
Don't forget that religion has a lot of man made rules too, rooted historically in trying to control people. It's stupid and completely unchristian to think that the God who loves the everyone and created Earth and man would have all non-believers go to hell - that's like a huge contradiction!
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Post by Craig Richard Lysy on Dec 14, 2009 19:14:08 GMT -8
Jon Broxton - It's OK honey, you don't have to be a good person who treats people well, you don't have to be honest, you can be a 'persecutor' and a 'murderer', but as long as you repent and believe in God, you'll be fine. Actually dear friend that is not correct. A Christian cannot gain reunion with God by good deeds, by confessing after sinning, or by accepting Jesus with his last breath. Human beings can only gain Heaven by God's grace. We will all stand naked and bear judgment; the scales of justice will weigh the choices of our life. God alone will decide our fate. We have no control, no influence and no effect on the outcome. Again, God alone decides our fate. To suggest that a man could live an evil life and gain paradise by a last breath confession defies both reason and justice. God knows all, understands all and reveals all. All subterfuge, rationalization, obfuscation and equivocation will not withstand Devinne judgment. I am not confident that I will obtain God's mercy, but I struggle on never the less as I believe there is merit and honor in the effort. I acknowledge my imperfections as well as my need for God's help to succeed. It is supremely difficult for modern people to admit that they are not Masters of their fate, that they do not control their destiny, that they and they alone are not in charge. For Christians, we must willingly accept submission. The ego must be sublimated to that which is greater than ourselves. I hope this provides some insight into an often misunderstood belief system. With all due sincerity.
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Post by Jangles on Dec 14, 2009 19:41:43 GMT -8
What Craig said is the same thing I am saying and is exactly right. His is the lyrical and verbose way of saying the same thing Come on guys - God ain't stupid. He isn't going to believe you are true Christian just because your Facebook has your Religious Views listed as such
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ddueck
Ghostwriter
Omnia dicta fortiori, si dicta Latina!
Posts: 245
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Post by ddueck on Dec 14, 2009 19:53:22 GMT -8
What Craig said is the same thing I am saying and is exactly right. His is the lyrical and verbose way of saying the same thing Come on guys - God ain't stupid. He isn't going to believe you are true Christian just because your Facebook has your Religious Views listed as such I quite agree - you and Craig are both being refreshingly blunt, articulate and honest about this. God looks on the heart, while man sees only another man's crust, his appearance and actions. But what antonioe1778 is getting at is that a heart truly repentant toward God and forgiven by Him will result in better actions - actions that spring from a love-based desire to please God rather than appease Him in a fear-based way.
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Post by Carlton the Barbarian on Dec 14, 2009 20:27:51 GMT -8
I do say that while works are not the basis for our salvation, works will indeed follow. I do not believe a true Christian can be a murderer, persecutor, rapist, etc... Do you understand? A guy cannot simply say "I believe" and then have nothing to show for it. Again, the good works are not the basis for our salvation, but the good works will indeed follow. We are not saved on the basis of our past deeds. Therefore, a rapist and a murderer can accept Jesus Christ and be genuinely saved, and yet will not continue doing the evil that he has done. I urge you to read entire posts before ripping stuff out of context next time (as people seem so content to do with the Bible as well) It's not that I (or Jon) are taking you out of context. It's just that if the basis of Christian salvation is belief, then actions do become irrelevant. I'm saved not because of my actions but because of my beliefs... My beliefs have set me free, so, if I do "evil" and I believe that Christ was the son of God, then I will still have salvation. Is this correct? Antonioe, I'm not trying to take you out of context, but if someone has nothing to show except for their beliefs, will they still be "saved?" I, too, believe that a follower of Jesus -- one who lives by the Golden Rule -- would be less inclined to commit bad deeds, but The Gospel of John and Romans present a problem. I often hear folks quote John 3:16 "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, and whosoever shall believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." It basically comes down to what it means to "believe." Can an adulterer (see Tiger Woods) belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, and still commit acts of adultery? Priests, who have harmed little ones (see the Catholic Church molestation cases), can they still receive salvation based on what they believe about Jesus? A lot of people are misunderstanding here. To be forgiven (as a Catholic or a Christian), you have to truly be repentant. It's not as simple as saying "I believe in God and I want to be forgiven just so I don't go to hell." God isn't stupid and he will be able to truly tell whether or not you truly wish forgiveness and accept salvation. What do you mean by "accept salvation"? I can do something bad and truly feel sorry, and then, a year later I can do it again and repeat the process. Will I still be forgiven? Does God love have no bound? Oh, this is too heavy to touch! Actually dear friend that is not correct. A Christian cannot gain reunion with God by good deeds, by confessing after sinning, or by accepting Jesus with his last breath. Human beings can only gain Heaven by God's grace. We will all stand naked and bear judgment; the scales of justice will weigh the choices of our life. God alone will decide our fate. We have no control, no influence and no effect on the outcome. Again, God alone decides our fate. To suggest that a man could live an evil life and gain paradise by a last breath confession defies both reason and justice. Then came wisdom through the awful grace of God. So, Craig, you believe that Grace could go either way. Good deeds, Bad deeds, confessions, and last breath acceptances are irrelevant? It's all up to God, and we do not know what he will decide. So Jon's chances, my chances, are just as good as someone who just "beliefs" in the divinity of Christ? Craig, how do you reconcile your view, with John 3:16 and Romans (I should re-read Romans to be more specific, but time is short)? So, if Jon and I have denied that Jesus was the son of God, can we still have salvation based on our (Jesus-like) actions? -Carlton
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