cheno
Conductor
Posts: 1,012
|
Post by cheno on Jul 18, 2008 2:18:13 GMT -8
Oh, how the hype was worth it. Ledger plays what, for my money, is the best movie villain since Hannibal. That combined with the obvious sentiments might get him an Oscar.
But my goodness, just a very special film. Even if you're not into anything dealing with comic books, it's still an excellent film noir as well.
|
|
|
Post by franzridesagain on Jul 18, 2008 4:41:45 GMT -8
This film is pretty good, guys. It's a grim night at the cinema, and there are some minor flaws, but I can well understand why many are calling it the best comic book film ever made. I can't think of another superhero film that takes the viewer on such an intense, dramatic ride. It starts slow, but when it winds up... BOOM. It really isn't a superhero film - it has more in common with crime/morality dramas like NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN, HANG EM HIGH, etc. COLLATERAL and its moral dilemmas also come to mind. (Great as the Joker is as a villain, Anton Chigurh's more laidback attitude and practical hands-on violence chilled me a bit more. But that takes nothing from Ledger's dominant performance.)
I'd say the only really unfortunate thing about the film is that of the film's four pillars, Batman, Joker, Harvey Dent and Jim Gordon, Batman is the one we spend the least time on a personal level. I mean when he's not playing Batman, and not playing the playboy Bruce Wayne. We don't spend enough time with that guy, and given how much that was at the heart of BATMAN BEGINS, it's a slight shame. But another way of looking at it is that this is much more of an ensemble drama than the first film, which was one man's journey. This film is about everyone's choices.
If there's anything else I'd say - I'll risk saying that this film probably is best seen on a normal cinema screen, not an IMAX screen. If Nolan shot his scenes from a more widescreen perspective, I'd say 'go for it'. But there are two critical action sequences where my friends had no idea what was happening, and the only reason I knew is that I was that I'm a more attentive viewer. This isn't a film killer, because the best parts really are when the characters are talking to each other.
A rare thing: I didn't notice when specific cues appeared in the film. I was caught up in the story enough not to notice. I do think 'Like a Dog Pushing Cars' appears over the end title. I don't remember where it appeared in the story.
No spoilers from me. Think twice about taking children and girlfriends. Especially children.
And can I just say this: IT'S GREAT TO ACTUALLY REALLY LIKE A SUMMER STUDIO TENTPOLE. I can't remember the last time that happened to me.
|
|
|
Post by Jens Dietrich on Jul 18, 2008 5:42:37 GMT -8
Despite it's flaws, and yes there are a few, what sets The Dark Knight apart from most Superhero piffle is that it is A REAL FILM. You know, with actual writing, drama, character development?
|
|
Joe Irvin
Conductor
(I'm the one in the middle)
Posts: 815
|
Post by Joe Irvin on Jul 18, 2008 12:14:16 GMT -8
Agreed. Ledger was as awesome as I'd always hoped.
Oh yeah and it goes without saying that the score was completely forgettable. The biggest blot on what was otherwise a great film.
|
|
|
Post by Hook on Jul 18, 2008 17:07:09 GMT -8
Some spoilers...
Ok, so it wasn't the best movie ever, but it was pretty damned great. I love how most of the effects are done on camera, and when that lens swoops over Batman on top of a tower in Hong Kong, that tower is there, and that is Batman (ok, it's some guy who sorta looks like Christian Bale, but you get my drift). However, Chris Nolan shoots action scenes way too tight for my liking and I'm kept grasping for space and the need to see what the hell is going on. Some might say it's style, but think of the scene where the Joker's crew downs the police helicopter. Even as the thing comes falling down, all the shots are kept at street level, with some cars blocking the view (there's even an "over-the-shoulder" shot with the main truck with Harvey in it).
The score worked, it fits, but that's about it. The Joker could have used a theme, it would've worked and even made things more interesting, but the effect they used doesn't seem to be a problem. Batman's theme is another issue, though. The music is designed, so says Zimmer, as some BDSM play on denying Batman his theme until he earns it or some other ridiculous thinking, but by the 16th time I hear those two notes in the theater, I start to feel sick to my stomach. There is absolutely no development for this "theme", and Batman is kept in this horrible, perpetual state of ♪Baaaaat-Maaaaaaan♫ Ugh. I hate it. But hey, what can you do when your theme is about as deep and thoughtful as the THX logo.
Obviously, I loved Ledger's Joker and the idea of having him crash into the movie as an unstoppable force of nature. Beautiful. And who knew that the best description of a mad man his size would come from the mad man himself (what is a dog going to do with a car after he has finally caught up to it?). The Joker and Batman's repartee reminded me of one conversation they had in the comics about the nature of their personalities, I think it was The Killing Joke. Anyway, I loved that. So it really saddened me to know that despite the possibility of a third movie with a Joker in it, we're not going to see that.
Some people are calling this the franchise's Empire Strikes Back. I don't know about that, but I do know that at the end of that movie, Luke didn't go into some lengthy exposition about what just happened because his stupid kid, who was this close to being shot, needed to understand, Samwise Gamgee style. Yeah, that bothered me.
|
|
Tex
Scoring Assistant
"Why so serious?"
Posts: 183
|
Post by Tex on Jul 19, 2008 10:18:46 GMT -8
I don't know. I was pretty blown out of the water.
I'm hard pressed to think of a superhero sequel this good (outside of maybe Spider-man 2 or Superman II... which had their little flaws too, like this movie). I think The Empire Strikes Back comparison is justified. I think this has pretty much rewritten the way comic book movies can be done -- and while the speech at the end was a bit much, I think it was necessary in an otherwise nihilistic film. Plus, as someone who generally HATES the way comic book movies seem to ALWAYS rely on the same old crappy cliched climax (cheesy back-and-forth banter amidst a lame CGI slugfest), it was nice to see an old school Mexican standoff with some actual characters we care about in jeopardy. No explosions. No epic battles. Just some guys dealing with their dark issues Good Bad and The Ugly style. Seems like a breath of fresh air.
Two Face did get sort of a short thrift, though. I'm told by some sources that there was thirty minutes of film that was still in the picture more than two months ago. I'm curious if there'll be a director's cut. Maybe that will flesh out his transformation more.
For my money, though, the coolest thing was seeing Chicago so lovingly brought to the big screen. Then again, I live here. Kudos though. This is the best Chicago movie since Blues Brothers or The Fugitive. It was like a sweet, bloody Valentine to Chicagoland.
I've always thought this city would make a great Gotham just on its own. When I saw Gotham PD van sitting on Lower Wacker next to the Corner Bakery delivery lot, I got goosebumps. However, the first film used a lot of CGI to transform the city left and right. But in this one, large numbers of shots were left untouched. They really went for hyper-realistic settings, not really mucking the city shots up that much, except in a few really large wide angle tracking shots. Otherwise they used insanely clever editing to make the city appear larger than it is. And let me say, I am in love with Nolan's warped view of Chicago geography.
We now have a prison island somewhere northwest of the Merc Exchange near the art district off the Brown Line. Hey, sweet! Who knew? I don't think any of us ever realized the Franklin Street Bridge led straight into hell.
I love how the subterranean realms of Lower Wacker (better known as Chicago's greatest driving secret and my own personal autobahn) is now twelve miles long. And I also love how they passed the iron gates at Michigan Avenue a dozen times. Really, you can only go 3/4 of a mile at most before you have to follow the river and curve to the right. Then you only have a half mile of straightaway before you hit daylight and the River District. But it made for a great scene. And I also liked the fact that I could spot the Lyric Opera Flags when they descended from Upper to Lower.
Oh, and for the record, this MOVIE marks the one and ONLY time I've ever seen cops on Lower Wacker. Its seriously like Thunderdome down there. Anything goes. *vroom*
Oh, and Navy Pier is now a Ferry Station. I like how Lake Michigan is now the Atlantic. I also like how Chicago has eight rivers. And I also love how they CGIed a million people stuck on Michigan and West Wacker near the Wrigley Building.
The old Chicago Post Office over the Ike expressway is now Gotham City Bank (thanks for fucking up my commute last year, btw, assholes... but I gotta admit now that it was worth it to see it on the big screen).
The old Brach's Candy factory on the West side at Cicero became a hospital (and you can see the Metra rails in the background). They really did blow it up. I saw the smoke. That's why I love this movie. No CGI flames.
The mayor's office office overlooks the Chicago River at the Congress Pkwy bridge near where I walk from Union Station. In fact, a LOT of footage was based in that one area, all around The Sears Tower by the river. And that shot of Batman overlooking the city on top of the Sears Tower? AWESOME.
I like how the El is back. None of that monorail bullcrap. And I love how in one of the scenes in the Loop (near where Bruce collides with Gordon's police van), you can see a storefront window in the background that reads "Sweet Home Chicago."
And Trump Tower (STILL under construction)? I love how that's the Joker's final hideout. I KNEW TRUMP was the source of all evil!
That last one alone made this movie worth it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Tilton on Jul 19, 2008 11:49:10 GMT -8
Just some guys dealing with their dark issues Good Bad and The Ugly style. Except without that awesome, epic music, not that that would have fit there.
|
|
|
Post by Jens Dietrich on Jul 19, 2008 11:51:32 GMT -8
not that that would have fit there. The mind boggles at the thought of what a real composer could have done with this material, though.
|
|
Tex
Scoring Assistant
"Why so serious?"
Posts: 183
|
Post by Tex on Jul 19, 2008 12:43:25 GMT -8
1. True that, Tilton.
2. I gotta be honest with you, Jens... I had no real problem with the music.
I would've liked, perhaps, a little more variation on those same damn two notes... it's pretty minimalist... same thing over and over again. But as a whole, I think this score's number one job should be -- first and foremost -- to stay the hell out of the way. And it did that just fine for my tastes.
Good enough atmosphere for my tastes. In fact, in many parts, I really enjoyed it.
And I disagree with Clemmenson -- I think the Joker's one note "buzz" was fine. It's not like I'll ever be clammoring to listen to it on CD, but it sure added to Ledger's creepy OMGWTF is he gonna do now? factor.
|
|
Jon Lord
Ghostwriter
Calvinism and Hobbes
Posts: 321
|
Post by Jon Lord on Jul 19, 2008 22:11:52 GMT -8
It's not like I'll ever be clammoring to listen to it on CD, but it sure added to Ledger's creepy OMGWTF is he gonna do now? factor. I know exactly what you mean. I'd hear that thing and immediately feel this genuine dread and BOHICA-ness. And while I was working today every electronic pitch and mechanical buzz gave me the creeps. As for the film, I absolutely loved it. I'm going to (try to) stop myself from writing an in depth review, but despite the little problems here and there, it exceeded my expectations, which were already high. One thing I've got to mention is the very real sense of menace and threat that pervaded the movie. It's a rare occasion when I'm genuinely emotionally invested in characters, do not know what will happen to them and feel that they are in real danger. And they were. -Jon
|
|
|
Post by Hermione on Jul 19, 2008 22:42:39 GMT -8
The buzz/siren/alarm sound definitely added to the Joker's creepiness (although the movie actually wasn't as creepy as I'd anticipated). Also, the Joker kept reminding me of Ben on LOST.
|
|
|
Post by General Silliness on Jul 20, 2008 5:58:46 GMT -8
currently on Nr.1 of imdb with 23 000 Votes and counting.lets see where it will end up.Wall-e was also a short time in the top ten.now its on 22.but its a long way to the 228 000 votes for godfather.but the box office record is sure.
|
|
Tex
Scoring Assistant
"Why so serious?"
Posts: 183
|
Post by Tex on Jul 20, 2008 8:22:20 GMT -8
Also, the Joker kept reminding me of Ben on LOST. Ha ha! Nice, Hermoine. In Ben monotone: "Welcome to the good guys, Dent." ;D
|
|
|
Post by General Silliness on Jul 20, 2008 13:05:16 GMT -8
and there it is: box office opening weekend record 155mio, 4 more than spiderman 3, and the reputation of that movie will help a lot to earn more.49 000 votes and its at 9.7 on imdb, by far best rated movie ever.holy crap!
|
|
|
Post by Jens Dietrich on Jul 20, 2008 13:10:37 GMT -8
Yes, this movie will indeed have legs.
|
|