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Post by muckle dabuckle on Oct 11, 2008 10:00:06 GMT -8
You mean both of them.
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Post by christopher on Oct 11, 2008 15:04:15 GMT -8
Indeed.
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Post by Kevin Smith on Oct 11, 2008 17:51:59 GMT -8
I'm saving up to buy Iceland.
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MikeP
Orchestrator
Posts: 537
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Post by MikeP on Oct 11, 2008 19:05:20 GMT -8
Funny, as that's what China says about us.
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Post by franzridesagain on Oct 14, 2008 20:00:58 GMT -8
And those millions of dollars executives are getting paid (even after a bust). Guess what? They buy stuff from companies who employ people, who also buy stuff. Go figure! The only "real" wasted money is the money people aren't spending that they actually have (and don't need for retirement or whatever). Same thing for companies. Of course, when they spend it and don't have it, that also creates a lot of problems You sir, are a modern manifestation of the Keynesian-Neoclassical synthesis. Your beliefs are a mixture of the futility of thrift and the so-called Fundamental Theorems of Welfare. They should give you the Nobel Prize for Economics for existing!
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MikeP
Orchestrator
Posts: 537
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Post by MikeP on Oct 27, 2008 3:52:14 GMT -8
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Post by Kevin Smith on Nov 2, 2008 6:25:56 GMT -8
Buy them while they are cheap.
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Post by Brendan Anderson on Nov 11, 2008 21:09:57 GMT -8
So now the government wants to bail out the car manufacturers? Are we going to let ANYTHING run on the free market anymore? People don't want to buy new cars right now. It's no one's 'fault', it's just what happens. Build a car that people want, and you'll sell more cars. It's not that hard.
I'm really getting tired of watching the government go up in pant sizes by the week...
-Brendan
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Post by Jockolantern on Nov 12, 2008 0:54:47 GMT -8
I'm really getting tired of watching the government go up in pant sizes by the week... Agreed. Scary stuff.
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Post by Hook on Nov 12, 2008 0:55:48 GMT -8
I'm no economist, but if I find it in my heart to believe all these people, it's either that or a great depression. So, let's suck it up.
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MikeP
Orchestrator
Posts: 537
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Post by MikeP on Nov 12, 2008 5:56:06 GMT -8
So now the government wants to bail out the car manufacturers? Are we going to let ANYTHING run on the free market anymore? People don't want to buy new cars right now. It's no one's 'fault', it's just what happens. Build a car that people want, and you'll sell more cars. It's not that hard. I'm really getting tired of watching the government go up in pant sizes by the week... -Brendan Agreed. I have mixed feelings about Detroit. It's their own fault they are hurting so badly right now, with their short term focus on profitable SUVs and their decades late response to Japanese reliability and customer satisfaction. However, if Detroit fails it WILL be painful to alot of people that work there or receive pension plans, which will only make the economic recovery even more difficult. In the end, though, I'm against it. GM and Ford are CLEARLY playing up the drama. Pelosi, naturally, doesn't seem to realize that. Neither does she remember her history, and how effective bailing out the airline industry has seemed to prove. (Hint: It wasn't.) The thing that is most frustrating to me is that the way the govt is handling this is an insult to the American people. It's saying that the American people can't handle a crash. That we won't find a way to persevere. They seem to assume that Americans aren't resourceful enough to find new ways of making money, or that there aren't any fiscally responsible Americans who deserve to see some of their more irresponsible competition fail so they can get a chance at building their own business and live the American dream. Damnit, give Americans a chance.
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Post by Carlton the Barbarian on Nov 12, 2008 6:05:43 GMT -8
Build a car that people want, and you'll sell more cars. It's not that hard. When was the last time anyone wanted to buy an American car? FORD. What does that stand for again? ;D Btw, does anyone know why Americans can't compete with Japanese manufactures? -CG
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Post by Carlton the Barbarian on Nov 12, 2008 6:17:48 GMT -8
In the end, though, I'm against it. GM and Ford are CLEARLY playing up the drama. Pelosi, naturally, doesn't seem to realize that. Neither does she remember her history, and how effective bailing out the airline industry has seemed to prove. (Hint: It wasn't.) Remind us. What happened in the 80's with the airlines industry? This was a little before my time. Anyway, transportation industries are different than manufacturing industries. I have no problem with the government giving tax incentives to GM and Ford to build more "greener" cars, but a financial bail out seems ludicrous. One could argue that certain transportation services are vital, one's like the airlines and the rail system (Amtrak), so some kind of government funding makes sense, but it this case it doesn't make sense. -CG
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MikeP
Orchestrator
Posts: 537
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Post by MikeP on Nov 12, 2008 7:45:48 GMT -8
Btw, does anyone know why Americans can't compete with Japanese manufactures? Reputation. Toyota and Honda have reputations for quality. Ford, GM, and Chrysler do not. The Japanese also had a clearly superior product for years. The gap has been closed since, but the damage has already been done. To elaborate, an attitude of shortsightedness, vanity, and bloat did Detroit in. Detroit skimped on quality for years, depending on patriotism (the whole "I only buy American" attitude of the 80s) and the momentum of being #1 to sell their brand. Meanwhile, the Japanese were conducting extensive surveys to find out what the American people wanted. Detroit, on the other hand, tried to dictate to the public what the public should want. Japan also continuously and incrementally improved their product, where Detroit was pretty content to rest on its laurels. However, it was SUVs that dealt the largest blow to Detroit. When the highly profitable SUV craze hit, Detriot put all their money into building more SUVs and neglected their sedans, coupes, and other economy cars. So when gas prices skyrocketed, Detroit simply had an inferior product to the Japanese. Not only were people not buying Explorers, but they were buying Toyota Camrys and Accords instead. Now, Toyota and Honda are huge and highly profitable, able to pour a large part of their budget into research and development to improve their product. Detroit, on the other hand, still bleeds money from their inefficient management structure and are struggling to stay afloat, let alone improve their product to compete. The govt. gave money to the airlines after the 9/11 attack, although truth was the airlines were in very poor shape even before 9/11. Since then they've come to the govt. as an ongoing thing for more money, and may also get some of the bailout pie. Once an industry counts the govt as a source of income, it can be hard to ween them off of it.
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Post by natedogg23 on Nov 12, 2008 8:35:08 GMT -8
I think the far more dangerous implications of all this bailout mess is the psychological impacts. What incentive does a company have to run a fiscally responsible company when bailouts are being handed out to anyone and everyone?
MikeP presents a great case in his last post for why the car companies should NOT be bailed out. Just like their shouldn't have been a bailout for all these financial companies (which they are already screwing up and there is no accountability with the bailout package, leading to more corruption). If a company doesn't strategically prepare itself to be successful both today and in the future why continue to support the companies? Granted it could lead to tough times, but it would be far better to allow the correction to occur than postponing the inevitable, which will only exacerbate the problem.
Why reward failure?
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